People are wrong.
Quite often in fact.
About a lot of different things. Everyone I know has been wrong at one time or another, some more than others, but every single person I can think of has been or is capable of being wrong. So people can be wrong. and not just intellectually, people can be emotionally wrong. That bad feeling or gut feeling can be wrong. It can sometimes be right but its not always right.
This is, I think, obvious to anyone who has ever met someone else.
Now most people aren't wrong about everything, just something. Something they feel or think is just plain incorrect.
So tell me something.....what are you wrong about?
oh come on... you can't think of anything that you are wrong about. but you must be wrong about something.
Not that you were wrong about.. that you are wrong about right now.
Yeah, I can't do it either.
Now we can't possible be the two smartest people on the planet. We can't be right about everything. No one is. We all have the capacity to be totally wrong about things.
So what could I be wrong about. This I think is a very important question, and nothing should be out of bounds for this question. The more important the belief, the more important that I know its true.
"As many true things." I called my blog that for a reason. I value truth. but how do you know if something is true or not. Nothing in this world has come close to as strong a track record as the scientific method. Ask questions, research the evidence, form predictions, gather data, analyze and draw conclusions. But the most important part is to be open to whatever the answer is, even if it isn't what you hoped and what you wanted.
Every atheist I know, if you ask them what could convince them to believe would be able to give you a list of things. What it would take to convince them. I could give you my list.
Every scientist in a lab could tell you what it would take to prove their hypothesis wrong. What it would take to disprove all their work. But being wrong in science isn't a bad thing, it reinforces what we know to be true. And when something that we believed was true is proven incorrect science rejoices at the news that something false was found and something true replaced it. Science moves forward. Science has never claimed to be correct about everything, it claims to be the most correct it can be with the information it has.
Kinda like us.
I can't think of a single thing that I am wrong about.....right now. because if I knew I was wrong I would change my mind.
When every I ask a believer what it would take to convince them they are wrong the answer is almost always, "Nothing, nothing could convince me I am wrong"
No progress can ever be made from that position.
When it comes to finding answers, science tries to look at the facts, the details, and follow them to a conclusion. While religion (namely the personal God religions) Start with a conclusion and look for answers to support what they already can't be swayed from.
This was perfectly illustrated in a debate between Ken Ham, founder of the Creation Museum and Bill Nye the Science Guy.
Ken Ham believes the world was flooded for a whole year. believes this with all his heart. He looks for only evidence that would support his concrete belief. and would absolutely disregard any facts that don't fit his model.
Bill Nye understands evolution. No belief required but if real evidence, proven testable verifiable evidence surfaced that contradicted evolution, proved it wrong and supported something else. He would change his mind. Thats how it works, thats why science progresses quickly.
At the end of the debate someone asked both debaters, "What could convince you you are wrong?"
Ken Ham said nothing could convince him and Bill Nye said evidence.
Religion makes doubt a sin. Knowledge a sin. Eve ate from the tree of Knowledge. That was her sin. There couldn't be a more clear message than that.
Science requires it. It requires doubt. It requires knowledge.
To be 100% sure to the point that you will not consider any evidence that doesn't support your claim is a form of extremism. That makes Ken Ham and Ray Comfort extremists. Now I think Ken and Ray are good people who have no intention of harming others but I don't think their positions do no harm.
Be cautious of anything that claims to have the answer 100% of the time. Be cautious of anything that can not be convinced it might be wrong.
What could I be wrong about? Why do I believe this? Am I right, if so why? Can I defend my position?
These are all questions I ask myself about anything, especially if it is important.
Showing posts with label theism. Show all posts
Showing posts with label theism. Show all posts
Tuesday, February 18, 2014
Sunday, February 16, 2014
Debating a Theist/ Big God or Little God and the Problem of Evil
There are two general positions that theists will use when in a debate on the existence of God so far as I have seen or experienced. I like to think of them as big God or little God or impersonal God and personal God.
Big God is the position of " Don't you believe there is something greater than yourself. something that governs the universe, some force that holds the universe together"
This is the type of God that an Atheist can never prove does not exist. We may not see a need for this God to explain how the universe works but someone can always claim that this God is guiding the laws of nature that we perceive. When they do this however they relegate their God to a position of insignificance. If God is somehow outside the realm of reality and detection then he is unable to make a contribution. You can say God wrote the laws of nature and I can't prove that wrong but if you begin to claim that God can rewrite the laws of nature or HAS rewritten the laws of nature, well thats another story.
Thats when we get to little God. This is the God that watches over you and has a direct effect on the world around us. This is the God that listens to prayers and forbids you from masterbation. This God to me is easily dismissible. As an atheist I can't prove that a Big God doesn't exist but there is no evidence to suggest that one does. The burden of prove is on the person making the claim and since there is not sufficient evidence to claim there is a big God then I'll withhold my belief.
The Little God makes some interesting and I think testable claims. If God has a direct influence on the lives of his followers then we should see evidence of this in the world. For example:
Do christians.... (I'm using christians because its the religion in am most knowledgeable about but this would be true for any religion that believes in a personal God) Do christians Live significantly longer lives? Do they receive things they pray for? Do they tend to live through major accidents that non-believers would not live through? Does God help them when they are in trouble? or other similar types of questions. The answer to these questions seems to be a resounding no. If every church going christian I knew lived to be 250 years old or more, as though their personal God changed the rules of nature just for them, then I would certainly begin to consider the existence of their personal God. If believers never seemed to die at a young age and tragedy never seemed to befall them, I would begin to question. But that brings me to the biggest problem I think theists have yet to be able to provide even the slightest of an acceptable answer to; the problem of evil.
There are earthquakes and tsunamis that kill millions of people; people with lives, with children. these things don't have to happen. A powerful and personal God that can command nature could stop them but doesn't.
But to me the most severe, the most horrible, words can not describe the evil of Ariel Castro.
In 2002 Ariel Castro abducted three different girls, one 21 years old, one 16 years old and one 14 years old. He held them captive in his house for TEN years. He beat them for TEN years, he raped them for TEN years. The girls became pregnant and in at least one case gave birth to the rapists child. During this time Ariel Castro drove a school bus for an elementary school. His daughter was friends with one of his abductees before the abduction, and Ariel even attended vigils for her, knowing she was locked in his home. He even posted to his Facebook wall "miracles can happen, God is Good"
This man is evil to be sure. and deserves more punishment than I am capable of imagining. Hell is too light a punishment and death too easy.
Imagine the cries these girls must have made. Imagine the pleas for help that went unanswered for TEN years. If someone believes in a God that has a hand in this world, then they have to believe he could have stopped this and choose not to. If there is a God then he listened to those prayers for TEN years before deciding... ok thats enough of this. He sat back and watched as this abductor of children drove a school bus. He heard their prayers and ignored them. There is no excuse, no context in which this is acceptable. If God uses these methods to test his creations or strengthen his subjects then I for one would not worship such a monster but instead dedicate my life to fighting it.
How can anyone defend their personal God in the evidence of this kind of evil. I wish Ariel Castro was the only example but of course he is not.
There is a Joke that several Christians have told me, a joke that is supposed to illustrate how God works.
I'll spare you the lengthy version but here is the quick version.
A woman sits in her home and a policeman comes to her door and says "hey there is a flood coming you better evacuate" and she says " No thanks, God will protect me."
Another policeman comes and says " hey the flood is here you need to evacuate your home"
she says " No, God will Protect me"
Her street floods and and she climbs on her roof and a boat comes by and man in the boat says "get in the boat come to safety" and she says "No, God will protect me"
the waters rise and a helicopter comes and lowers a rope. She turns it away saying "No, God will protect me"
She dies and when she sees God she asks "why did you not protect me"
God replies "I sent two policemen a boat and a helicopter what more do you want"
Couldn't God have sent a cable tv repair man or a gas line inspector, Couldn't God have a neighbor look over the fence. Ten years. I for one think there is plenty of evidence in this world that an interventionist God does not exist.
Big God is the position of " Don't you believe there is something greater than yourself. something that governs the universe, some force that holds the universe together"
This is the type of God that an Atheist can never prove does not exist. We may not see a need for this God to explain how the universe works but someone can always claim that this God is guiding the laws of nature that we perceive. When they do this however they relegate their God to a position of insignificance. If God is somehow outside the realm of reality and detection then he is unable to make a contribution. You can say God wrote the laws of nature and I can't prove that wrong but if you begin to claim that God can rewrite the laws of nature or HAS rewritten the laws of nature, well thats another story.
Thats when we get to little God. This is the God that watches over you and has a direct effect on the world around us. This is the God that listens to prayers and forbids you from masterbation. This God to me is easily dismissible. As an atheist I can't prove that a Big God doesn't exist but there is no evidence to suggest that one does. The burden of prove is on the person making the claim and since there is not sufficient evidence to claim there is a big God then I'll withhold my belief.
The Little God makes some interesting and I think testable claims. If God has a direct influence on the lives of his followers then we should see evidence of this in the world. For example:
Do christians.... (I'm using christians because its the religion in am most knowledgeable about but this would be true for any religion that believes in a personal God) Do christians Live significantly longer lives? Do they receive things they pray for? Do they tend to live through major accidents that non-believers would not live through? Does God help them when they are in trouble? or other similar types of questions. The answer to these questions seems to be a resounding no. If every church going christian I knew lived to be 250 years old or more, as though their personal God changed the rules of nature just for them, then I would certainly begin to consider the existence of their personal God. If believers never seemed to die at a young age and tragedy never seemed to befall them, I would begin to question. But that brings me to the biggest problem I think theists have yet to be able to provide even the slightest of an acceptable answer to; the problem of evil.
There are earthquakes and tsunamis that kill millions of people; people with lives, with children. these things don't have to happen. A powerful and personal God that can command nature could stop them but doesn't.
But to me the most severe, the most horrible, words can not describe the evil of Ariel Castro.
In 2002 Ariel Castro abducted three different girls, one 21 years old, one 16 years old and one 14 years old. He held them captive in his house for TEN years. He beat them for TEN years, he raped them for TEN years. The girls became pregnant and in at least one case gave birth to the rapists child. During this time Ariel Castro drove a school bus for an elementary school. His daughter was friends with one of his abductees before the abduction, and Ariel even attended vigils for her, knowing she was locked in his home. He even posted to his Facebook wall "miracles can happen, God is Good"
This man is evil to be sure. and deserves more punishment than I am capable of imagining. Hell is too light a punishment and death too easy.
Imagine the cries these girls must have made. Imagine the pleas for help that went unanswered for TEN years. If someone believes in a God that has a hand in this world, then they have to believe he could have stopped this and choose not to. If there is a God then he listened to those prayers for TEN years before deciding... ok thats enough of this. He sat back and watched as this abductor of children drove a school bus. He heard their prayers and ignored them. There is no excuse, no context in which this is acceptable. If God uses these methods to test his creations or strengthen his subjects then I for one would not worship such a monster but instead dedicate my life to fighting it.
How can anyone defend their personal God in the evidence of this kind of evil. I wish Ariel Castro was the only example but of course he is not.
There is a Joke that several Christians have told me, a joke that is supposed to illustrate how God works.
I'll spare you the lengthy version but here is the quick version.
A woman sits in her home and a policeman comes to her door and says "hey there is a flood coming you better evacuate" and she says " No thanks, God will protect me."
Another policeman comes and says " hey the flood is here you need to evacuate your home"
she says " No, God will Protect me"
Her street floods and and she climbs on her roof and a boat comes by and man in the boat says "get in the boat come to safety" and she says "No, God will protect me"
the waters rise and a helicopter comes and lowers a rope. She turns it away saying "No, God will protect me"
She dies and when she sees God she asks "why did you not protect me"
God replies "I sent two policemen a boat and a helicopter what more do you want"
Couldn't God have sent a cable tv repair man or a gas line inspector, Couldn't God have a neighbor look over the fence. Ten years. I for one think there is plenty of evidence in this world that an interventionist God does not exist.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)